When the Universe Says "No"

Hey! I'm back. Sure, it's been a few years, but what with the pandemic and all, is anybody really surprised?

Sunset somewhere over Mexico

You'll never guess, but we're back in Ecuador, just for a visit. It was time to flee the winter in Eastern Canada and we had to renew our Ecuadorian ID cards, so back we came to Cuenca. We thought we were pretty smart, we hired someone who knows the system to help us get new cedulas, had all of our paperwork in order and had (hopefully) booked enough time to get it all done.

The first step was to have our visas transferred from our old passports into the new "electronic" visas, then get our marriage registered in the Registro Civil. (This, despite the fact that our cedulas clearly indicate that we are, indeed, married to each other. Classic government bureaucracy.) Then, after those two hurdles, we'd be ready to renew our cedulas. Sounds pretty staight forward, right?

The New Cathedral from Terra Restaurant

Alas, no. As Ron is the primary visa holder the agency in Azogues wanted to see him first. He and our fixer dutifully went out there and after a brief wait they were told that they wouldn't be tranferring the visa, as we'd been out of the country for too long. When we left in 2019, permanent residents could be out of the country for up to 5 years. What we didn't know, is that in 2021, the rules changed and that term was cut down to only two years. We were a year too late.

Full moon over the city

We really weren't that surprised. Disappointed, to be sure, as it was nice to have the possibility of moving back here should the need arise. The universe had already given us several indications over the past several years that our time here might be done, but the nudges were subtle, or we were just being thick. 

Sunrise over Ecuador

You'll hear a lot of negative things about the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' Azogues office, They are intractable when it comes to the rules. I've found my dealings with them to be incredibly frustrating, mostly because they kept telling us "no". That's on us, really, not on them. Just be forewarned. Many people opt to use the Quito office, to avoid their incredibly narrow interpretation of the rules. All that being said, they did us a solid. They didn't cancel our visas and kick us out of the country. That means that, technically, we're still residents, but it's a very narrow technicality. We have two ways to remediate the situation. Apply for residency all over again starting from scratch, or let our residency go. Because of the new 2 year out of country rule, we've decided to take the second option. 

Anyhow, this leaves us with some free time on our hands, so we've decided to run off to Columbia for the end of our trip. So, here we come, Bogota and Medellin! I guess we're making lemonade.

With Enough Red Tape, You Can Make a Bow

Are you tired of listening to me whine about the idiosyncrasies of Ecuadorian bureaucracy? Sometimes, I am, too. I realise that it's completely unfair to complain about something as complicated as governmental process. We are privileged that they allow us to be here, make no mistake, no matter how nonsensical things seem to us. It's all about perception. 

Let's be honest, Canada isn't all that different, depending on what you want to achieve. Sure, the technology seems a bit more advanced, but aside from that, you'll experience a full range of different answers depending on the agent with whom you talk. We've experienced this a couple of times in Canada and I'm quite certain that they weren't isolated incidents.

Yup, Canadian red tape

So, what's new in Ecuador?

The process for becoming a resident has definitely changed. When we arrived, you could immediately apply for permanent residency, but now you have to wait two years. You start as a temporary resident for one year, renew for a second and then can apply for permanent residency after that. There are, of course, rules about how long you can be out of the country during your temporary status. Once a permanent resident, the new law states you can be out of country for 5 years. YAY! Oh, wait that may not apply to people who were approved under the old system. BOO! Or maybe it does. Boo-yay?

Another change is the requirement of medical coverage for residents, and visitors that are staying more than 90 days. The government is requiring all residents to provide proof of coverage within 90 days of the new legislation, which was passed in early August. This requires an appointment with our favourite ministry out in Azogues. But wait, people have been showing up to adhere to the new legislation and are being turned away, because there is no process for the verification. Most "fixer" and/or legal advice: just wait and see what happens.

This sentiment also applies to the transfer of our visas: wait and see. To be clear, our visas do not expire and yet they require us to (re)provide most of the documentation that we gave them for the application, minus the criminal record checks and birth certificates. This is under the "easier" legislation aimed at stream lining everything.

A local immigration lawyer held a meeting to explain all the changes and give people up to date information. Good on him/her, wouldn't you say? Having been here for a while, I could see the writing on the wall for this particular exercise and didn't attend. (We spoke with 3 different lawyers about our visa transfer and received 3 different answers.) Sadly, my premonition was proven right and chaos and confusion ensued at the meeting.

What's our strategy? Do what we want until someone tells us differently. Better to ask forgiveness than permission, right?

Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here...

...at least at the Ministerio de Relaciones Exteriores y Movilidad Humana (MREMH) in the Azogues offices.

I believe that in my previous post I mentioned that that particular office has a horrible reputation amongst immigrants to this lovely country. The issue that we came across can be fairly easily remedied, if you have friends at your financial institution. I'm pretty sure we could get Ron's visa transferred with fairly little fuss now. 

What can't be overcome is the necessity for yet another marriage certificate, duly notarized, stamped as official by the Canadian government (the DFAIT, to be specific), and translated either here, or authenticated by the Ecuadorian consulate in Canada...for a fee, of course. It must also be no older than 6 months. This is according to an immigration lawyer here in Ecuador. As I'm an "amparo" or dependent, we have to prove that we are still related through marriage.

Actually, he suggested that there might be a solution, but doubted that it would work in the Azogues office. You can obtain a certificado biometrico (a biometric certificate) that lists everything that's happened in your life since you became a resident of Ecuador. This should highlight the fact that no divorce has been registered between myself and Ron. This solution has a very small percentage of working. The good news is that we can enter the country using the visa in our old passport. The lawyer says we can do this indefinitely, but we've heard otherwise. I'm sticking with the legal opinion, at least for now.

There is a solution to all this ridiculousness! But it's only for those who can meet the marriage certificate criteria...I'm talking to you, people in the process of applying for residency visas with a (spousal) dependent.

We did learn a way to avoid this horrible red tape. Register your "foreign" marriage in Ecuador. This also requires the marriage certificate and all that goes with it, but if you were to do it right away, while in the process of getting your residency, you'd have a permanent record of your nuptials that would show up on the biometrico. Of course, no one even hinted at this when we got our original visas.

So, what did we learn? It's better to go to Quito or Manta or any other office other than the one serving Cuenca. My base instinct tells me to fight the injustice, but perhaps I need to choose my battles wisely.

Back to the Drawing Board

Well, we went to Azogues to attempt to transfer our visa to our new passports and, as all things go, it was pretty standard Ecuador. The transfer did not happen. (Okay, probably not a big surprise.) What did take us by surprise was the reason. 

Ron's pension statement comes in his day-to-day name, meaning "Ron", not Ronald. What's that commercial for men's hair colour? Reee-JECTed. When we actually received the visa, the pension letter was addressed to Ron (not Ronald, nor any mention of that). They have the letter in their files, verified by the Canadian government, notarized and duly translated. Said file made no appearance on the desk of our agent, almost like it doesn't exist or they don't know where to find it.

How I felt about it all

We didn't even get to my paperwork...what's the point? It really felt like the agent was just looking for a reason to reject us. Another couple who had been in the foyer had issues, too. Their agent said they wanted an original letter from their health insurance company stating coverage in PERPETUITY. (What private insurer is going to issue THAT?) I'm starting to wonder if we're facing a bit of racism. The one person who actually managed to get their visa transferred had a Latino name and really solid Spanish. Paranoia on my part, perhaps. It might be coming from the bad taste in my mouth.

There's nothing like having someone make you feel like you're stupid or treating you like a criminal. We can't quite decide what to do next. Perhaps we'll worry about it once we're back from our trip. Hey at least we saved ourselves $300USD.

Red Tape and Trauma

Call me jaded, but dealing with Ecuadorian government process can be stressful. We received our new passports and are ready to try to get our visa transferred over to our shiny new travel documents. We've heard that it's quite straight forward. (Cue the sigh.)

I'm probably borrowing trouble, but I can see all sorts of challenges. There are two places on the Ecuadorian immigration site that outline what you need to bring with you to get the transfer completed, but of course the lists are (slightly) different. (Sigh...oh did I do that already?)

We do have a lot of what we need and the other things are fairly simple to get...depending on which list you go by. Well, we'll just have to see, won't we? We have our appointments and (hopefully) the required paper, once we make a few stops over the next week.

I'll drop an update once we find out how it all turns out.  Keep your fingers crossed for us.